Well, we know that the exact cost will be shown before you run the job. What we don't know if if you can put together "hypothetical" manufacturing runs to see what the cost would be.

No. I'm thinking of it as a tax on manufacturing, additional to the existing cost I already incur running a POS and one I cannot escape even with several highly skilled characters. It implies I have to run around all over the place to find the lowest (temporary) manufacturing cost. That might be different to the place where I can get the lowest research cost. All of my stuff gets spread around. I can no longer have a "base of operations" if I care about my costs (which I do). I have to manage it all and it's going to be a gigantic pain in the butt.

this is akin to how i paid like a thousand dollars for my computer three years ago and i could build a better one for $500 now

sure i spent $500 more but i got the computer three years ago

but its still a nerf to those that worked for the standings.

I'm

I've been playing the game since late 2008. I have five active subscriptions which I actually PAY for.

I have lived and pewed in nullsec, lowsec & w-space for extended periods (about a year each). I've done FW. I've built & researched almost everything. I've done trade, industry, mining, exploration, etc.. I was a ninja-salvager with Suddenly Ninjas for years. Until recently I was part of Marmite (largely highsec PvP). I've ganked and been ganked. I've infiltrated corps and had corps infiltrated. I've even taken "a break" and once left the game completely for half a year. I have done it all, enjoyed most of it, made good friends and given CCP a LOT of money in exchange for that.

Change happens. I've seen it countless times. Sometimes I benefited from the changes, sometimes I lost huge amounts of ISK. I've lucked into situations where changes saved me months of skill training, and have trained alts for specific purposes only to have a change render months of training useless for my purpose. Sometimes change is great. Sometimes it sucks. Get over it. :)

These industry changes, though, are a symptom of a larger issue that has been making Eve much less fun for me over the last few years.

Mabrick captures it well: Building Better Worlds for Whom? Though I completely disagree with his idea that we should stop ganking in highsec, his other points are IMHO bang-on.

Ultimately it comes down the the fact that CCP has been gradually and relentlessly trying to FORCE me to play in nullsec, partially through efforts to make highsec safer & more new-player-friendly (let's nerf ninja salvaging and add safeties to our ships). These industry changes, however, won't help drive new subs and will probably have the opposite impact by making production in highsec very low-profit (if profitable at all). CCP has been clear that they want to promote "risk vs reward" which really means "let's force experienced players to nullsec". What CCP is doing is making it impossible for me to choose to play this "sandbox" game in a way that I enjoy. They are (and have been, slowly over time) eliminating my options and effectively forcing me to play the way THEY want me to, or quit. That sucks. Look at Skyrim's success. Look at Civilization. Look at Eve's early success... Now look at *insert game with strict linear story-line here*. Remember it? No? Because they fail! People like choice and hate being forced into things. We get enough of that in RL.

I've done nullsec & IMHO it sucks. If I wanted to be part of some mega-organization with a management structure driven by 20-somethings with power/self-esteem issues, I'd quit the game and spend my free time at work instead. I didn't join Eve to have that experience. I didn't join Eve to pay "rent" to a mega-corp for the privilege of getting access to a third-rate system with an empty local or to spend 12 hours in a TiDi slow-mo battle. I joined Eve to be my own person - I joined to explore a sandbox, make my own decisions, build relationships, make stuff, buy stuff, sell stuff, profit and to destroy other peoples stuff. I've been to nullsec. I've got the t-shirt. It's not fun for me.

And that's ok. There are lots of people out there that have a different opinion of nullsec. It's their choice to live and play in nullsec. It's my choice to live in highsec and make forays into low, null and w-space when I want to. That's the key word here, CHOICE. Changes like this and CCP's 'risk vs reward' piling-on of benefits for nullsec play, have gotten ridiculous. I thought it was bad when they led all those lambs to slaughter during that live-event a few months ago, but it just doesn't stop. And nullsec is not nearly as "risky" as some like to claim. Nullsec can be very very dull and in some instances safer than highsec (depending on how/where you play).

If it would drive new subs I could buy into changes like this (or at least chalk it up to 's*** happens, get over it'), but these changes aren't about that. They're aimed squarely at FORCING experienced players into null.

Three of my accounts are focused on the highsec industry value-chain I've built and love managing. I can pick it up when I have a few spare minutes (unlike PvP, which I only do when I have time to do it properly). I have 100+ billion invested in BPO's, towers, mining ships, stock & transport ships but even without the details I can see that the only way to maintain these activities profitably is to move to null. Not by choice, but as a direct result of the changes CCP is proposing. Since I don't enjoy doing industry in nullsec my choices come down to maintaining an unprofitable/borderline business in highsec or leaving the business and focusing on other stuff.

I'm resigned to leaving the business - my free time is too valuable (cost & risk vs reward).

When the game time runs out on those three industry-focused accounts they won't be renewed. I've stopped training my industry and transport toons and am breeding toons on those accounts for sale. The stations are on the market. The BPO's will be researched until after the summer changes, then sold.

I'm not rage-quitting - I'm keeping 2 accounts for PvP - but Eve no longer gets my (frequent) casual game time. In the last week alone I've bought The Stick of Truth, Total War and other games. They give me CHOICES and are a really fun way to spend 30-60 minutes a day.

Stop eliminating player choice, Mmmkay? It's bad.

Lets brake this update down to what it relly means in regard to gamplay:Team cost=i have to haul lot more stuff for production spending less time on what i want to do with more risk .Smart industrial:planning loong time a head less likly to pay of shorther copy time marked change faster and to be that smart i need to hawe a lott more building matrials to be abel to change production fast,this mean a lott more isk bound up in matrials thats meens relocation of base will cost a lott more time.Refining gets nerfed:Longer skill traning means less time on other skills neded to defend your self or other corp members making it iven harder for industrials to be under war dec for a longer time playing the game.Spending iven more time on finding rigth station to produce things and calculating profitTo brake it down in short tearms invest more/produce more/spend more time/for the same amount of isk that you make to day and do less off what you want to do.